User:Baggins/Archive 1

Good work!!! Could you as well add more plot information on the three novels, since I see you are well acquainted with them... Also, can I request that you use capitals for the first letter of proper names? Connor McLyrr 02:54, 25 August 2005 (EDT)

I suggest you don't repeat identical paragraphs in two or more articles, like that one about both Daventry location theories can be correct. If it's too important, you can just put a 'see also' link. Connor McLyrr 14:06, 26 August 2005 (EDT)

Magic Subcategories
Yes, I believe that you're right on this point. I will subcategorize them into witches, wizards, sorcerers, and the like. Thanks for pointing this out!

Elessar 12:36, August 29, 2005.



Noted. I had been interupted earlier and couldn't finish. However, I agree that "Sorcerers" should be changed to "Wizards".

Elessar 16:31, August 29, 2005.



It could be argued that sorcercers are merely evil wizards, thus rendering Mordack a sorcerer. Let me know what you think.

Elessar 17:19, August 29, 2005.

New pages
I noticed that you are adding new pages and categorzing them, but have left them otherwise blank. I would recommend that you stop doing that as then those who write desricptions and the like will think that someone already wrote the article.

Elessar 12:06, Sept. 02, 2005.



That's alright then, if you're going to fill in the info. And definately categorize them right away so that one doesn't have to srounge around trying to find them and categorize them later!

Elessar 21:27, Sept. 05, 2005.

Copy Protection Posting??
Are items such as the Ancient Ones alphabet allowed to be posted since they are the copy protection of the game?


 * Such pictures are circulating even in the Ken and Roberta Williams' homepage and forum - Connor McLyrr

Ya I noticed, that they even mind their games to be distributed, through links to other sites on their forums as long as Sierra doesn's say anything... So I suppose it might not be such a bad thing putting them up.Baggins 20:25, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

Yeah
Yeah, I'm replaying through KQ6 and trying to grab lots of screens. I'll probably replace the map image when I can get a screen of it. (Either tomorrow or the next). Good luck editting.

Uploading files
To upload any kind of media file, click on the Upload file option, then upload your file. To put the file into a page just add [[Media:file.ogg|alt text]] replacing the ogg extention with mp3 or whatever it is. For pictures, use.

Elessar 16:35, September 10, 2005.



That probably means that you have to convert the file into a different format (try ogg). If you don't have a converter, you can download a good one at www.dbpoweramp.com. (This is the one I use). You'll have to download an ogg codec from their codec page as well.

Elessar 17:37, September 10, 2005.



Two questions: Have you tried uploading in different formats already, and when does it say "unsupported file type?

Elessar 17:43, September 10, 2005.



I don't know what the problem could be, unless you didn't actually convert the file and just changed the extention. :P Try asking E1ven as he is the administrator.

Elessar 17:51, September 10, 2005.

Good Job!
Baggins, I just want to admire your good job during all these months, from summer to now. Just a 'history' click in any article will show that most articles were done or mostly edited by him... Baggins IS the KQ Omnipedia. Connor McLyrr 03:59, 2 October 2005 (EDT)

Uploading should be fixed now. -Colin

-- I've made you a admin on the KQ Omnipedia. I've fixed the Image problem, and I'm working on the DB issue. In theory, we could set it so only registered users could edit, but the SQ omnipedia, at least, has gotten a bunch of good articles from anonymous users..

I'm happy to discuss anything with you, to make this work better. Feel free to AIM me- e1ven, or ICQ me, 9956939.

E1ven E1ven

Shaharazad Dispute
Baggins,

On the subject of the Shaharazad disagreement we've been having lately: I've discussed the topic with several other people, and everyone I've spoken to agrees that the knight's name is never mentioned within the context of KQ6.

Here's the bulk of one response that sums things up very well:

The verse on the gauntlet reads:

Flesh may cross the portal and seek its Master, Death,

Flesh may go where Death has trod, and challenge, like Shahrazad,

He who reigns beneath the sod, to spare a mortal's breath

''The "Knight of the Night" never reached Death to challenge him. It is a very obvious reference to Shahrazad of "A Thousand and One Arabian Nights. Shahrazad challenged death by telling her stories nightly to stay alive. KQ6 has a Arabian motif to it. It is absurd to think that someone as literate and well read as Jane would make such a mistake in a game that she probably did a lot of research on.''

According to another person, the official KQ6 hint book by Lorelei Shannon only refers to the knight as "the dead knight".

You also mentioned that the KQ Companion says that the knight's name is Shaharazad, but I've looked through the 4th edition, and the name is never mentioned, since the verse on the gauntlet has been completely changed. Could you tell me which page you saw the name appear on, in case I missed it?

Setting novels/companion material apart from game material?
I've noticed that lot of the entries in the Omnipedia mention people, places, events and things from the KQ novels and the KQ Companion without stating that they are from those books. Frequently, elements of the novels and Companion are mentioned in entries about in-game characters/places/things, again not mentioning the origin of the elements (e. g., Alexander's ship is automatically named the Johannes Bey in his entry, and Graham's journey in Kingdom of Sorrow is mentioned in his entry).

The KQ novels and the Companion, as fascinating and insightful as they are, aren't strictly canon. In fact, many elements of the books violently contradict elements of the games (Alexander and Rosella are different ages in the novels, Graham has blonde hair and a beard in one of the novels, Manannan's cat is female in the KQ Companion, the River Styx and Lady Celeste's hair are red instead of black in the KQ Companion).

It would probably be much less confusing to readers if information from the Companion and novels were kept seperate from information from the games themselves (e.g., Rosella's misadventure with the sloks and the weevils could be under a seperate section in her entry; Alexander's quest to rescue his father's soul could be treated likewise), and if entries on things from the Companion and novels were more clearly labeled (e.g., Prince Herbert of Greys is called that in the KQ Companion, but NOT KQ5, yet that is his entry's title in the Omni; Zephyr the wind's name is never revealed in KQ7, though it is in the KQ Companion).

This is just a suggestion, not a request. I just wanted to toss it out to see if anyone agrees or disagrees with it.


 * Actually, I'd be up for adding in some kind of citation method, more than total seperation, something that gives page number refrences and the like. Also I've tried to start adding in "real world" refrence notes to many things like "Hassan" entry, that points out he wasn't named in the game, but given a name in the spin of material. As for Alexander and Rosella being different ages, I don't remember that do you have a page refrence for that? In 2 of the books Alexander isn't even around, since they take place before KQ3. The book that is about Alexander Rosella is hardly mentioned as she is supposed to be out of the country.


 * As for "Graham with a beard" he's actually been shown that way a few times (or at least with a mustache) in manuals of the games, so it would seem he shaves from time to time. Yes, human males do grow beards, so not entirely an inconsistency.


 * Plus there is the "category" refrence to the companion on every page with such articles.


 * Plus some entries if you don't use the expanded name wouldn't actually be able to exist as entries since there would be no other way to designate them.


 * Manannan's cat is an interesting issue. Depending on how you interact with it in game, there is at least one refrence to it being called "her" (sorry I don't remember exact way of getting that remark), along with the refrences to it being called "it" or "him" (or equivalents), at least in the version I have access to.


 * But as it is we have mostly decided on seperating official copyrighted sources vs. fan made sources. As for colors of hair and the like not even the games are always consistent. Sometimes Valanice has red hair, and sometimes she has brown hair. Graham with a green hat (MoE), or Graham with the standard blue hat? Geography of Daventry? It changes in different ways, sometimes subtle in each game. Remember we are discussing a series in which the games aren't exactly consistent between each other. So we generally do not nitpick small inconsistencies (that is we rarely bring up the consistency issues at all, instead we just refrence more "historical" information). Also several times there are interlinking refrences to the companion and the manuals, and official strategy guides written by game designers. So it is more official than you think.


 * Actually according to Peter Spear himself (I once personally had the chance to ask him a few questions about his book), he and his co-authors actually worked with the game designers when writing the book to make it an official Sierra product, and "canon". They even got access to early drafts of the games, and even was able to suggest a few ideas that influenced the games. Sometimes the inconsistencies exist because the designers changed their ideas from the original drafts.


 * As of note Peter Spear told me himself that he is actually an anonymous contributer to this site as you probably didn't know. So many of the articles dealing with material from Companion may have some of his input he added to them personally. Although he declined to give the name of who he posts under, or if he just posts under IP addresses.


 * Although I certainly understand there are people who choose to ignore it in its entirety. The article on Canon discusses the various views on the issue. I personally consider the material as "secondary" sources but still valid source of information.


 * Also not sure what you mean refrence to river styx being red in the companion, in my copy it describes it as being "black ice", pg 298Baggins 07:29, 31 January 2007 (EST)

Thank you very much for implementing this new system. It should help clear up a lot of the more ambiguous entries.

Regarding your responses: In Chapter 2 of Kingdom of Sorrow, the tenth birthday of senechal's son, William, is being celebrated, and as a present, Graham takes him to the castle parapet. while they are there, Graham reflects that "If [Alexander] had still been home, he would have been about the same age as this boy." (pp. 8-9). When Rosella appears later, the narrator says that she is seven years old (p. 20). There is no indication that Alexander and Rosella are twins in this book.

I've examined the KQ3 source code, and I've never seen the cat referred to as "she", though there are two instances when it is referred to as a male: after you pull some fur from it, and after you trip over it on the stairs to the laboratory (if you have the dough in your ears).

Regarding Graham having a beard, I know that he appears with a mustache once in the KQ2 manual, but I've never seen him depicted with blonde hair and a beard anywhere other than Kingdom of Sorrow.

Another plot inconsistancy with the novels is when the senechal is telling Rosella that she is going to bankrupt the kingdom in See No Weevil. I don't know how that can happen to a kingdom with an ever-replenishing chest of gold.

As for the River Styx being a different color, I got confused by the text in the companion, which briefly mentions red water in the Underworld; said water is later mentioned becoming part of the Styx. --Akril 15:00, 1 February 2007 (EST)


 * Ya, KQ3 sourcecode. That's why I mentioned in the version of the game I have. There may very well be differences in different versions of the game. There were at least 3 versions released if you didn't know. Sorry I don't remember how to initiate the "she" refrence, but when I play the game again I'll go look for it.


 * Ya I could see the inconsistencies or how the inconsistencies could be interpreted in stuff you mentioned.


 * As for the refrence to Seneschal's son and the age thing, I always personally read that as meaning "about" the same age, not the same age. Even seven years old is close to ten years old if we are talking about approximations.


 * As for blond hair, not going to argue with you on that, definitely an inconsistency, although he has been depicted with, grey hair, white hair, blue hair and red hair in other games and sources. Blonde hair is even inconsistent with the artwork on the cover, which shows him to have dark hair. But certainly not something important enough to discuss within an article (although great for discussions in the talk pages!!!). Like I said before we have inconsistencies in stuff by the designers themselves, so like I said I tend to just ignore stuff like that for the greater picture, the story, more so than the technical aspects.


 * "I don't know how that can happen to a kingdom with an ever-replenishing chest of gold."
 * Heh heh, well there is a greater issue technically, if the kingdom used its gold too much, then gold would not be worth anything anymore, and then they would go bankrupt. Remember overuse or over production of money devalues currency, and then sometimes nations go bankrupt because of it. At least if we discuss real world economics. On the other hand, gold is not such an issue if you notice in later games that neither Graham or any of the characters ever seem to carry gold around with him where they might need it. Indeed it usually turns out that there is often times when they need some form of treasure, and end up having to find it wherever they traveled to. Even in KQ3, it seems that kingdom has a problem with funds looking at the state of the kingdom (I'm pretty sure that if they had that kind of funds they could have afforded to pay mercenaries to try to go after the dragon, or keep up kingdom in repair). Its actually kind of telling that Chest of Gold really gets no refrence outside of KQ1 in any of the other games? Why is that? Because it could be too much of a dues ex machina, that could possibly fix "everything" if it was abused for use in games?


 * Come to think of it, its probably the same reason that the magic shield, never gets mentioned past KQ1 within the games. If it is supposed to make the user invincible against any enemy, then it should have worked against oh say a three-headed dragon ;). Not to mention Graham could have probably brought it with him in KQ2, and he would have had no problems with any threat he encountered. But uses like that would have been too much of a deus ex machina, and wouldn't allow for the far more interesting stories of Gwydion/Alexander saving the kingdom, or Graham getting past the obstacles using his brain instead of brawn.


 * Although I find the Seneschel to be even funnier character for the way he actually overeacts about everything. Everything he says tends to be an overstatement to what really happens, and by the end Rosella pretty much puts him in his place by proving that he's paranoid, but also protects him from being in trouble when the royal family returns.


 * BTW if you haven't noticed the articles in this omnipedia tend to be written in chronological order with official sources first, and unofficial second.


 * Believe me I felt that the split between truly unofficial and authorized sources was needed, because sometimes the fan game designers view their own material as somehow being the "definitive" version of the game, and thus would include said information in the main history, or in discussions. I personally felt that went a bit too far if you know what I mean?


 * Personally though I despise the term "canon" as most designers, producers, etc, did not have a straight forward canon policy or system in place (unlike say franchises such as Star Wars or Star Trek), and seemed to be winging things as they went along (which may explain the inconsistencies between games).


 * In King's Quest so called "canon" has been more interpretive by different fan groups more than anything that Sierra defined themselves. To be honest Sierra was more into claiming everything even spin off literature as being further history of the King's Quest universe in their Interaction magazine and other published sources, and bonus material in various collections (btw as soon as I find my copies of Interaction I'll be sure to add the quotations from Sierra on their treatment of novels, and companion). But I never once remember the magazines or Sierra articles using such a term as "canon". I think Peter Spear is the only person I discussed the issue with that even bothered to use the term, and I didn't get impression he was using it in a formal way, more of an informal use (most of his conversation was informal). Which let me clarify during the same chat he jokingly acted like he had received other messages from the "real" Derek Karlavaegen since the last edition of the book. Which included "messages" concerning MOE (although he was referring to cancelled 5th edition), heh heh. I mean this is one of the authors of the same book that claims to be telling the "true story" of what happened as received from court chronicles of documents in the real universe of Daventry, whereas Roberta is just a game designer/producer, telling stories based on the what she has see in dreams, and may also be influencing the world itself with her dreams (this was partly to play with the fact that the games often had more than one way of solving things, where as the book told "a single way" during the novels). He apparently has fun playing on that theme, LOL.Baggins 15:35, 1 February 2007 (EST)

Broken Picture?
In the top-left corner of King's Quest it says: Image:Kqlogo.gif, and the picture itself is just white. Do you know what the picture was and where to get it?

Elessar 00:35, 27 May 2007 (EDT)


 * Hmm, if my memory serves me correctly it might have been a variation on the K/Q seal/symbol as seen in KQV-VII. If you want to replace the picture you are more than welcomed to.Baggins 19:43, 27 May 2007 (EDT)

Rate of time passing in Eldritch
According to the Eldritch page (and other pages), "only 15 minutes had passed in Daventry" while Rosella and Valanice were in Eldritch.

I was wondering where this exact time came from, since even though upon their return, Graham tells them that they are 15 minutes late for lunch in the sound clip cut from the game, we are never told exactly what time it is when Rosella and Valanice leave Daventry (at least to my knowledge). They could have left at 12:00 PM, but they could have left a few hours before noon as well, so they might have spent considerably longer than 15 minutes in Eldritch. --Akril 23:52, 27 May 2007 (EDT)


 * The companion states that only a short amount of time passed, infact Graham states that he "scarcely new they were even gone at all" (contrast that to Graham's earlier comment on he thought they were missing for 15 minutes), to which Valanice discusses that rate of time moves much more quickly in Eldritch, and from her POV she had been gone for a long time.


 * Now I'm not saying it was exactly 15 minutes of time that they were gone in daventry time, but they definitely returned roughly the same time they left, as mentioned in companion.


 * So its possible they could have been gone less than 15 minutes (if they were already late for lunch when they first left), or slightly more than 15 minutes (if time progressed to the 15 minute mark in Daventry, while they were gone), but they were certainly gone in a short enough period that Graham only barely noticed they were missing.Baggins 16:21, 29 May 2007 (EDT)